Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

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Carpdaddy
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Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#1 Post by Carpdaddy »

I know that many make good arguments about it being totally unnecessary but I can't help it. I like to shoot as much weight on my hunting arrows as I can get by with without affecting performance. I am not trying to start a debate here but merely asking for suggestions. I would not dare do this on some forms for fear of being stoned! Besides brass inserts (Carbon arrows) and heavy points what if anything do you guys do to get your weight up without bad negative foc effects? I have used rope which works if tight so it doesn't cramp up in one end. I have and am using weight tubes on my standard size arrows and love them. But my new arrows are smaller diameter and they won't fit. I got straws in one which is a bit light and aquarium tubing in another which is a little on the heavy side. I want to be around 600-625 total grains. weight tubes in my standard size (5/16th) arrows does perfect with my new 250 grain points.
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Crazynate
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 9:54 am

Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#2 Post by Crazynate »

Sweet I'm with you on this one. If I have to add weight to the arrow I like using aquarium tubing. With my carbon arrows and a 150-175 grain head I'm usually around 600 grains which is perfect for me.i try to not get to crazy with heavy tips and inserts just because I like a flatter flying arrow and sometimes when hunting I short draw especially with layers of cloths on. And when I run super heavy up front it gets me bad flight. 100% my fault though. I do like the aquarium the best for adding weight. I got my buddy's who still shoot with training wheels using it on their arrows to. If I do use aquarium tubing I usually go up from a 400 to a 500 spine arrow. That way I can run a lighter tip because of spine and still have a heavy arrow. If I do it with my 400s I already need to add 200 plus grains to the tip before I add the tubing and that puts me to heavy or I should say heavier than I prefer.
Goodnight Chesty Wherever You Are.

Carpdaddy
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#3 Post by Carpdaddy »

I guess I could lighten up a bit on the tips, currently using 200- 250's. 600 grains shoot well but as I pass over that I begin noticing a difference, arrow dropping too much from my 42lb bow. The other factor is that I'm trying to maintain high foc. With tubing the 200 grain point drops me to 16.8%, 225 @ 18.1%.

Crazynate
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#4 Post by Crazynate »

Nothing wrong with highFOC. I just like the weight balanced throughout the aero. I don't even know why lol. Just the way I am I guess but yeah if I use my 400s I get way to much weight for my lighter weight rugs.if I'm using my 55#great plans they work fine. Have you ever done any penetration testing with heavy FOc? Like into different materials and compared penetration? I'm wondering if it's something that can be noticed fairly easy. Once I'm out of the hospital and shooting again maybe I'll try some myself just for something to do haha. I have always wondered. I saw a gentleman at the range using a 46# bow and his aluminum arrows were footed and he had 440 grains up front lol. I thought man that should penetrate lol
Goodnight Chesty Wherever You Are.

Carpdaddy
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#5 Post by Carpdaddy »

No I have never did any type of penetration testing other than on deer. It was the lack of penetration on one many years ago that caused me to look into the subject. Since reading the Ashby reports and increasing weight, increasing FOC, and using heavy cut on contact two blade heads, I have never had another issue.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#6 Post by Shadowhntr »

I'm a heavyweight you know that Tony. I prefer ultra extreme FOC around the 30 or 31 % range. I actually really like the very light arrows so I can jump my head weight way up. Im shooting roughly 370 gr and 350 gr and getting a 605gr and 625 gr arrow with foc over 30%.

Honestly I've shot and loosely tested everything from 10% foc up to 31% and there really isn't any big notable changes in penetration until you get up to, or over 25%. The high foc's are not way up the list of penetration factors, though obviously they play a part. Good over all arrow mass is more important I think. But even over that a well designed high mechanical advantage razor sharp broadhead is the very most important penetration factor. Coupled with everything else we know to do , produces consistant results we are striving for. With that in mind, test in targets with field points yields very deceiving results. For instance I like to use single bevel heads for the added penetration when bone is encountered. Testing in targets don't allow for bone nor does a target allow for proper cutting in a rotation as single bevels do in tissue or bone encounters.
Listen, on a properly placed near broad side shot, nobody notices any real differences in penetration provided the arrow and bow are reasonable and decent for deer. Only if bone is encountered will there be a difference that becomes obvious. I get nervous and sometimes miss my mark....thats what I do this high efficient arrow thing for. And before anyone tells me heavy bone will stop any arrow, I personally seen this set up at 12 yards put the broadhead through the backbone just behind the shoulder area and it broke the bone clear in half and the arrow continued on and point was sticking out the far side virtually unblemished. That was a 45lb longbow on a big bodied buck. I also witnessed a heart shot that angled forward and was misjudged, and it struck the front leg just below the pit of the leg....it blew right through with the same type set up.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Carpdaddy
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#7 Post by Carpdaddy »

Jason; you mean that you are shooting 350-370 grain up front?? That's a lot! I shot some yesterday with 300 up front and they flipped all around, but somehow hit the mark great. Are you using a 500 spine arrow from your 40# bow to accomplish this? My 600 spine won't let me get over 175 up front, I am using 500 spine now but over 250 they start to get erratic. Seems strange since you are (or were) shooting longer arrows than my 29". I wouldn't think a few pounds more that I'm drawing would make that much difference. But my old dropped scales could be lying! Hum

Longtrad
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#8 Post by Longtrad »

I can't tell think of a way to increase weight and eoc without also impacting spine. Maybe just glue the tubing in the front half of the arrow? You might be able to bump your side plate out a bit and load up the tip a little more.

I got 500 spines to work with 300 up front out of a 46#@26 bow 1/8th past center and the arrows cut to 27.5 so I think it would be hard to do with a longer draw, especially if your bow is cut to center

Captainkirk
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#9 Post by Captainkirk »

Try this; take your aquarium tubing and fill the front portion with lead shot. Use a large enough shot that they are a tight fit in the tubing so they wont rattle around or shift CG point. Once you hit a point you like, you could remove the shot, squirt some RTV inside the tubing and put the shot back in to make it more or less permanent. Keeping the shot in the forward 1/4 of the tube or so should give you a great FOC advantage. Or if you like even distribution like Nate, just fill the whole thing with shot front to rear. By golly, that will make one HEAVY arrow!
BTW, Nate...what the hell you doing in the hospital anyway? Hope you're ok....?
Aim small, miss small!

Longtrad
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Re: Time to get serious and call in the heavyweights!

#10 Post by Longtrad »

You might be able to find a bullet that will fit the inside diameter and glue that in behind the insert but I would think that would increase your spine needs

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