which bow to hunt need your help

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joe harrod1945
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#16 Post by joe harrod1945 »

I will take your advice.the 40# bow is easier to shoot an hold.should i cut down my arrows to 29"or leave them at 31.5".I do not understand foc front of center.would the stiffer the shaft be better at 15 yds or the extra 2.5"for more weight.I am confused.I want the best setup I can get.thanks for the nice coments on the subject you will not get that on other sights.please help me to understand foc an what it means.

Carpdaddy
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Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#17 Post by Carpdaddy »

I would not cut down the 2215 arrows any shorter due to it making the arrow stiffer. The spine is .420, that’s pretty stiff for a 40-45 pound bow, you could use a 600 spine most likely, mine likes a 2213. But sometimes we got to use what we have. I will try to find the thread on arrow foc I did a year or so ago, hopefully it will help on that.
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joe harrod1945
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#18 Post by joe harrod1945 »

I DO HAVE SOME CARBONS.should I try to use them.I have 250,400, 500.what do you think tony.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#19 Post by Shadowhntr »

Joe, no trad bow is fast enough if a deer is alerted. By alerted I mean it knows something is wrong before you shoot. If its relaxed, and calm, the deer at 15 yards doesn't stand a chance with your 40lb bow. Doe are more nimble then bucks but it wont matter if they are clueless.
Not saying you need it, but I shot a doe at about 13 yards with a 45lb longbow with an 830+ grain arrow. She was alerted to my presence not 5 minutes before I shot her. She did move when the arrow hit causing it to exit back a little. She didn't go far, and if I'd been able to shoot at her calm I'd of had a perfect kill. I'd bet my bow that the arrow wasn't moving any faster then 135 fps. I KNOW your set up is faster.
The only thing I'd change, is to either pull the bleeder blades out of the razor head, or use a different 2 blade head. Those added blades will make a difference in your penetration with lower weights like that.
My main primary bow, is a hybrid longbow exactly 40 lbs @ 28" and she is deadly.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#20 Post by Shadowhntr »

For a 40lb bow you'd need a heavier head to use the 500 more then likely. The others are going to be stiff. A 600 would be more ideal. I shoot 315 gr heads with a 500 at 31 inches or so with my 40lb bow. A lighter head will require a lighter spine.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

joe harrod1945
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#21 Post by joe harrod1945 »

thanks alot,no bleeder blades any way.back years ago bleeder blades would break.I never found a bleeder blade when i did kill a deer.I would the barely file the point into a diamond shape about 1/32" to keep it from sticking in a rib. those single bevel broad heads look good to but I do not have the money to spend.I am going to make some broad heads out of 1/16" steel with single bevel bet it works.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#22 Post by Shadowhntr »

Bet you're right!
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Captainkirk
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Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#23 Post by Captainkirk »

I agree with the others; you should have no issues with either bow being effective.
In a nutshell, Joe... FOC is the distance in fractions of an inch forward of the center line of the arrow at which it balances. Example: a 30" arrow's center would be 15". If you mark 15" and balance the arrow on that mark and it balances, your FOC is zero. If you move the balance point forward two inches and it balances there, your FOC is 2". The heavier the front end of the arrow, the further forward the balance point moves. As with darts (the throwing kind), best flight and accuracy is obtained by having more weight forward of center, leaving the feathers to due the guiding. The higher the % FOC, the easier it is for the feathers to correct errant flight (up to a point).
To determine %FOC, use the formula (BPL-OAL/2) / OAL=FOC
BPL=Balance Point Length (measured from nock groove to balance point of complete shaft)
OAL=Overall arrow length measured from nock groove to back of head or point (BOP)

Example: A 28" arrow with a balance point 18" from the nock groove will have a FOC of 25%

(BPL-OAL/2) / OAL+FOC
(18"-28"/2) /28" = FOC
(18-14") /28"= FOC
FOC=4"/28"=14% (approximately)
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joe harrod1945
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Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#24 Post by joe harrod1945 »

thanks again kirk.now i can figer it out.

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Grizzly
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Re: which bow to hunt need your help

#25 Post by Grizzly »

Here is some more info for you to play with. If you make your own broadheads, they may come out a bit light. if you don't use a heavy insert, and use a standard one, you will have to reduce your spine. With field points you start out around .756 spine for 40 b. You might want to increase spine for a broadhead (although they worked for me with 125gr broadheads and standard inserts) if you add heavy inserts. In that case a 1916 is a tough arrow at .623



How to pick the right aluminum arrow without charts!

Here's the deal: There are only nine arrow spines you need to start off with bows from about 18# to about 100#. (Note that this is an approximation and you’ll see why in a second).

IN GENERAL for 28" ARROWS +/- 1" (27 - 29") and 100 - 125gr heads:

18# - 23# 1516
24# - 27# 1616
28# - 33# 1716
34# - 42# 1816
43# - 52# 1916
53# - 60# 2016
61# - 70# 2117
71# - 80# 2216
81# - 100# 2219+ (Might want to play with 23xx, 24xx and larger shafts as it can get a little dicey at those weights, since bow efficiency starts diminishing after a certain weight.)

If you go to a 30" arrow, jump up one spine number, if you go to a a 32" arrow, then go up two spine numbers. Ditto for going shorter, 26" one spine down, 24" two spines down.

Head weight will also affect spine, however, it will require 45-50 grains to jump one spine number. For example, if you're shooting a 40# bow and using a 29" 1816 with a 100 gr head, going to a 150 grain head may require you to jump to a 1916.

This WILL NOT give you the perfect aluminum arrow for a given bow. It will give you a tunable arrow, and that's all you need for starters. Once the arrow is tuned, you'll know if you're compensating for a stiff or soft arrow by the tuning requirements. Then you can fine tune arrow choices by juggling wall thicknesses and diameters.

For example, if you have a #41 @ 28" bow and are using a 29" arrow, you'd pick an 1816, right? And that would work. If you find that you have to move the rest/strike plate out a little more than you’d like, then your NEXT set of arrows might be 1914s. They are the same weight as the 1816s, but a little stiffer.

Regarding Fastflight Fight (low mass/low stretch) strings. The difference between Dacron and FF is on the order of 5#, in a worst case scenario, so if the right arrow was chosen in the first place, it should still be within tunable parameters.

In addition, if I know a particular bow, I might suggest an arrow that's not one of the primary spine numbers. A certain #57 bow might work very well with a 2114, for example.

*Aluminum arrow nomenclature: the first two numbers denotes the shaft diameter in 1/64" and the second two are the wall thickness in 1/1000". For example, a 2016 has a 20/64" (or 5/16") diameter and a wall thickness of 16/1000". For those of you who would like more detailed information, below is a table complied from Easton's aluminum arrow charts, showing the name, spine, weight and grains per inch for each arrow size.

To convert the spine (deflection in inches) to approximate draw weight, divide 28 by the deflection.

For example, an 1816 has a deflection of 0.756",
therefore: 28/0.756 = ~37#, the midpoint of an 1816's acceptable weight range.

Note that Easton does change their offerings from time to time, and therefore some entries may no longer be available and some new additions may not be listed.
Shaft Spine Size (inches) Weight (grains) Weight (gr/in)
1214 2.501 142 - 24" 5.92
1413 2.036 153 - 26" 5.88
1416 1.684 194 - 27" 7.19
1512 1.554 157 - 27" 5.81
1514 1.370 184 - 27" 6.81
1516 1.403 197 - 27" 7.30
1612 1.298 170 - 27" 6.30
1614 1.153 208 - 27" 7.70
1616 1.079 227 - 27" 8.41
1712 1.099 181 - 27" 6.70
1713 1.044 200 - 27" 7.41
1714 0.963 219 - 27" 8.11
1716 0.880 261 - 29" 9.00
1813 0.874 228 7.86
1814 0.799 249 8.57
1816 0.756 269 9.28
1912 0.776 220 7.59
1913 0.733 242 8.34
1914 0.658 269 9.28
1916 0.623 291 10.03
2012 0.680 232 8.35
2013 0.610 261 9.00
2014 0.579 277 9.55
2016 0.531 306 10.55
2018 0.464 356 12.28
2020 0.426 391 13.48
2112 0.590 244 8.41
2113 0.540 270 9.31
2114 0.510 286 9.86
2115 0.461 312 10.76
2117 0.400 349 12.03
2212 0.505 256 8.83
2213 0.460 285 9.93
2214 0.430 302 10.41
2215 0.420 309 10.66
2216 0.375 349 12.03
2219 0.337 399 13.76
2311 0.450 242 8.36
2312 0.423 275 9.48
2314 0.390 309 10.66
2315 0.340 338 11.66
2317 0.297 385 13.28
2412 0.402 280 9.66
2413 0.365 302 10.41
2419 0.268 422 14.56
2511 0.348 233 8.1
2512 0.321 298 10.28
2514 0.305 329 11.34
2612 0.285 280 9.68
2613 0.265 333 11.48
2712 0.260 275 9.5
The 2007 Easton catalog introduced a new version of their Gamegetter XX75 shafts. Now sporting a black anodized finish, the shafts are available in four sizes, based on their carbon arrow nomenclature. In 2009, the XX78 Superslam (digital) shafts were given a shaft diameter nomenclature as well.

Essentially, a 500 series shaft is identical to a 2016, 400 = 2117, 340 = 2315, and 300 = 2317.
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