Ok, what am I missing here....

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Shadowhntr
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Ok, what am I missing here....

#1 Post by Shadowhntr »

Well, I got the carbon arrow going, and I been planning on getting more soon. In the mean time, im checking and rechecking trying to make sure its right. In the process, I started shooting my lone 500 carbon, with a handful of woods I have that are mainly 680gr-710gr....one is the exception at 740gr. Anyway, in shooting the woods and carbon together, im not really seeing a big difference in flight, speed, and accuracy...but Im seeing just a smidgen better penetration on average but its not much. I dont really know what to look for in carbon advantage, other then resilience . I wont know for some time in that dept. I guess im saying so far, im not really seeing the advantage, am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of, is carbon allows me to get 28% FOC at a mere 650gr total weight. Of course there is the issue of being more simple and less time to build then woods...I also save time fletching because I go through a riga-ma-roar on woods to time the arrows face grain on top and botton as well as getting the cock feather on top in 12 o'clock position. Its easy as turning the nock on a carbon. I like the carbon, but im just not seeing big differences in it and wood....maybe not enough to give up the woods. I mean they are flying just as good.....comments please ?
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Carpdaddy
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#2 Post by Carpdaddy »

I thought you presented a pretty good argument there on the last for Carbon, at least you named some advantages I like. :lol: All in all to me it's first the ease but mainly the fact that I break a lot less of them! :mrgreen:

Captainkirk
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#3 Post by Captainkirk »

Well, you named most of the bennies of carbon. There is also the added advantages of being able to use lighted nocks, weighted inserts, screw on broadheads, smaller shafts and probably a few more advantages I've missed.
And despite that, I shoot woodies. 'Nuff said.
Aim small, miss small!

Longtrad
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#4 Post by Longtrad »

I like swapping points and nocks easily, but you get that with alums too.

I like the feel of a 5/16 shaft and its hard to get higher spines in that diameter for woods

I like that I dont have to worry about grain run outs or grain orientation, sealing the shaft, straightening the shaft, or denting the shaft. I guess I would say the carbons are more low maintenance, they are either straight or broke in my experience.

the specialty carbons are cool, you can get real skinny ones, ones with steel footings, light ones, even heavy ones! :lol:



when you hit something hard and mushroom the arrow, all you have to do is cut a little off, toss a little more weight on, and you still have a good arrow! I was never able to salvage many broken woodies like that; although, that trick Gordon showed us gives me a little hope for woods in that regard.



hmmm... maybe you could argue they would be less affected by really hot weather??? maybe not...




I would not say they are more accurate than wood though, once everything is tuned up nice they all get to the the same spot on the target for me.

Captainkirk
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#5 Post by Captainkirk »

I could also add that if I shot the type of carbon arrows I mentioned above, I could also match them up to a bow with the same type of credentials as well. I could mention that, but I won't. Nope, I won't.
Aim small, miss small!

Longtrad
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#6 Post by Longtrad »

Tech bow and tech arrows? True enough my friend! but then again that is something you could put a positive spin on for trad shooters as well... Carbons are very versatile.

If are having too much trouble deciding on shaft material might I suggest Full metal jackets with an internal wooden tapered footing! The best of all 3 worlds :shock: :lol: ;)

Shootalot
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#7 Post by Shootalot »

I've never shot carbon and will stay with wood but I am envious of carbon's durability.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#8 Post by Shadowhntr »

Idk, I think its more of that personal line division thing. I mean, broadheads of today might be considered tech, unless we are using some kind of rock that is. I know the English had steel bodkin heads in military use long ago, but they weren't exactly broadhead design. Im thinking fiberglass might fit that description for some people as well. I use to have a hard drawn line about what trad meant, which in essence is the opposite of tech or modern. But I realized its ok for each person to decide for themselves what those lines are, it seems like everyones is a little different.
Tell truth, in the past I had quite a hatred for carbon arrows. I developed that years ago when they were a new concept. I tried them and did not like what I seen... and until this day, swore them off. BUT....things change and things improve, but more then anything, learning HOW to use them effectively has made me give them a second look. Back then I knew nothing of FOC, exactly how important arrow weight was, or how to go about tuning.
Ive mentioned before, how I purchased a new Widow, because I thought my bow was insufficient to produce good penetration...what a laugh! So I X'ed my bow, X'ed my carbon arrows, and replaced them both for a Widow/Aluminum combo. I still didn't see the kind of penetration id hoped for. But in the process, I learned about tuning and realized it wasnt the bow. However, up to this time, I never even gave a proper tuned and weighted carbon arrow a chance, though I realized my prior issues with them, was from lack of knowledge. Im not saying Im a die hard carbon fan, but I do feel that I at least need to give them a real chance this time done with knowledge. In the end, if they give me what im looking for, I plan on addiing them to my repertoire, but not necessarily replace anything. I certainly do like the ease of the build, and thats a huge bonus at times for me when I just want quick arrows to get to shooting quickly. Good woods take time, and though I enjoy building them, they are not a fast build. Until I get some experience and time under my belt with carbon, I have to just wait and let them determine my future thought about them. I have an idea they are going to be pretty darn resilient.
Added-Oh yeah....I about forgot to ask. What exactly is the benifit of screw on broadheads? Its been so long I guess, I cant think of it. I always considered glue on's better, for eliminating the arrow insert, and broadhead insert, effectively eliminating 2 weak spots. I realize there are steel /brass alternatives now. Maybe changing head weights? I dont normally do that very much. I got in the habit of tuning arrow shafts to a particular head weight.
I must be so use to glue on's, because once I have my burner and hot melt out, it only takes a few seconds to glue them on. In fact, Most of the broadheads I like, I must glue in an insert to convert them to screw in. Idk.... Im trying to look at all angles here.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#9 Post by Shadowhntr »

Ha! Here is some interesting data about the 2 arrows im shooting.

Carbon
31.5"
650gr.
28.2% FOC
342gr head

Wood
28.25"
680gr
22.6% FOC
300gr head

Yet the carbon seems to only be minimally better penetration, and on many rounds, penetration appears quite equal between the 2. The wood is a bit heavier over all, with lower FOC and lighter head.... Is it just the inconsistencies in my target density? There are fellas on other sites, that seem to think carbon out penetrates wood by a long shot.... but unless something is screwed up in my target or measuring, the carbon is only minimally better for penatration. According to common thought process of today, higher FOC trumps over all weight for penatration. After shooting these over and over....im not so sure of that claim. Im thinking that both foc and weight need to be there. Im thinking yet again, overall weight is being a grossly underestimated factor of penetration......hmmmm :?:
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Longtrad
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:26 pm

Re: Ok, what am I missing here....

#10 Post by Longtrad »

yeah I dont think the screw ons have any advantage other than ease of swappin points, I think the thread post is certainly a weak link. plus they rattle loose, I put little hot melt on my threads to keep them from unscrewing.

I wish there were more shaft options to try out, it's a lot of fun for me. I like my carbons I like my woodies cedars, I want to try out some tapered doug fir and give thick walled aluminum arrows their fair shake too!


Cant comment on target penetration, i dont have any proper targets I shoot at, I would think that would be hard to test FoC vs mass. My understanding is FoC is only for soft tissue.... don't know how that all works out in foam targets or the like, it seems like to would be hard to test.

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