OH-vur-BOH

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Captainkirk
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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#31 Post by Captainkirk » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:17 pm

graps wrote: But I also will add....
The more I learned about doing archery correctly , the worse I shot .
A lot of truth in that, Dale.
As a kid, I shot whatever arrows I could find out of my Pearson. "Spine?" What the hell is that? Somethin' in yer back, I think?
They seemed to fly just fine for me.
Aim small, miss small!

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Shadowhntr
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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#32 Post by Shadowhntr » Sun May 01, 2016 5:15 am

Honestly for me, the more I learn the worse I feel I shoot. But I think thats because with learning, greater expectations came along with it. At one time I simply wanted to keep em on the bale, then as I learned i wanted to keep them "on the paper", then the score area, then the black, now the bull.....and if one arrow misses, my expectations are blown and that is sort of a let down. I seem to think every arrow I release ought to hit right where im looking. I think im off, when joe blow might think its great shooting. Ive come to realize though, most of my arrows will be killing deer, and many would kill turkeys...so really as a hunter,,,,what else do I need? Who cares if I cant always hit an eyeball sized target....im going to be shooting at a deers lungs. I personally think I can see that happen more years with the lighter weight bows, then if id go back towards heavy. I can personally hit and kill just fine with 56lb, and likely even with a 60lb bow. Not as accurate as I am with light bows, but still in the lungs of a deer consistently. Its my body that keeps me from doing that, and I want to shoot some more deer for more years to come....

My x brother in law, use to shoot a 65lb Jefferies recurve. I shot it quite a bit. I could hit to kill with it, but he was really good with it. He'd match me and more while I shot the 52lb widow. He'd shoot it sometimes a hour and a half....but we never did get in a hurry and just passed the shot back and forth. Our favorite game was trying to bust each others nocks. Back then it didnt happen that often. He killed several deer with it. Today, as you might expect, he wants to be in the 45lb club.....shoulder problems crept into his life. He does do just fine with his 49lb Bob Lee though.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

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Dan
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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#33 Post by Dan » Sun May 01, 2016 12:33 pm

The bows I have are 63@27.5", 60@28", and 48@28". My draw length is 29" or so. I can shoot any of these bows for quite a while before over doing it. I will say that if my release is not perfect it doesn't effect arrow flight near as much with the heavier draw bows. I shoot 600 to 650 grain arrows out of all 3 bows. I'm still young and fairly strong I don't feel overbowed shooting 60-65 lbs yet.

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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#34 Post by Captainkirk » Sun May 01, 2016 8:42 pm

Dan wrote:The bows I have are 63@27.5", 60@28", and 48@28". My draw length is 29" or so. I can shoot any of these bows for quite a while before over doing it. I will say that if my release is not perfect it doesn't effect arrow flight near as much with the heavier draw bows. I shoot 600 to 650 grain arrows out of all 3 bows. I'm still young and fairly strong I don't feel overbowed shooting 60-65 lbs yet.
You probably are fine right now, Dan.
However, on another site a bunch of guys (including several competetive archers) have mentioned their shoulders are "gone" from shooting heavy bows for years. I consider myself lucky that I had access to this sort of info now when I'm just getting back into trad (last two years) because apparently the damage is cumulative over several decades for some shooters (not all!), sort of like arthritis.
Me; I would rather shoot a lighter bow well and work around the issues of a light bow than to trash my elbow or shoulder....I could tell that would have been coming down the road and that's why I backed off.
Aim small, miss small!

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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#35 Post by Captainkirk » Sun May 01, 2016 9:21 pm

So, getting myself back on topic here...
It seems the modern trad archer has two paths he or she can take; shoot the heaviest bow one can comfortably control and handle, OR shoot the lightest bow that is legal in your state and will provide adequate penetration to do the job in exchange for pinpoint accuracy.
I think we can all agree that this range begins somewhere between 35 and 40 pounds?
Personally, as much as I love shooting my Tamerlane and even Baby Ben, I consider neither a hunting bow except maybe for small game. I personally believe deer/turkey sized game bows begin at 40 pounds and work upward from there. The key is centered around you, the shooter. Can you shoot the bow weight of your choice as much as you want or feel necessary without collateral damage? If so, then you are on a good path. If not, you have two options:
a) Back it down to a lighter bow that will provide the penetration you need without injuring yourself, or;
b) Keep the bow you hunt with and purchase a second, lighter bow for your practice work.

Option One is definitely the cheaper option in the long run. Owning different bows in different weights involves completely different arrow spines in most cases, plus any other tackle required by the bow. While a takedown with several sets of limbs can be an excellent go-between, it still requires different arrows in most cases. The most important thing for newbies to consider is DON"T JUMP IN WITHOUT TESTING THE WATER! Never buy a bow because "it sounds right" or "Real Men don't shoot wuss bows". FIND OUT where that sweet spot is between accuracy and penetration based on your age, muscular build and other limitations. Try out as many different styles and weights of bows you can before dropping the dime. Don't take 3 shots at the pro shop and call it good; shoot for 45 minutes with a friend and see how you feel the next day. Any numbness in the fingertips, or tendon issues in the wrist, or elbow, or rotator cuff pain can signal you need to back off. The only way you get good at trad archery is by muscle memory, repetition, and hand-eye coordination. That means a LOT of practicing, especially the first couple years. I wish someone had explained that to me before I bought a 55# Sage; I might have been talked into dropping it by 10#. But then, maybe not. I did come with the factory-standard issue testicles, after all.... 8-)
Aim small, miss small!

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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#36 Post by Carpdaddy » Mon May 02, 2016 3:48 am

As I have stated through the years on here there was a time when all my bows were 60lb with the exception of one that was given to me. That Bow was 47lb and I wouldn't hunt with it because I thought it was not enough to take a deer with. The reason I thought that was due to my first few seasons of hunting with it, I was green and had no one to explain anything to me, I just got some arrows that were said to be the correct spine and went after them. This resulted is poor penetration on my first three deer. I managed to get a few even with this set up but what really got me was the time I shot one broadside from a tree at about 25 yards, I watched my arrow fly and hit what appeared to be perfect and then go just through the skin and down the ribs and out the bottom of the deer never penetrating beyond the skin and ribs. That's when I hung the bow up and stopped using it, I went back to the wheelie bow for a while until I could get me a heavier weight bow. I finally got a heavier bow and got back into it and after getting a successful pass through I was hooked, I sold the wheelie bow and never turned back. I began building bows and would not dare building one under 60lb. Thankfully I began to find sites like this one and talk to others about my new passion, imagine my surprise when I began to learn that the bow poundage was not my problem at all, that I didn't need near that much, the problem was the weight of my arrows, not the draw weight of my bow! I continued hunting with my 60lb bows for several years though just because that was what I had gotten use to. But then came the arm and shoulder problems as age took its toll. The moral of the story is that I can now hunt with full confidence in my equipment using a bow with less draw weight than that first bow that still hangs on my rack. I get total pass through now in most every case due to the arrow weight and foc and not the bow weight.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#37 Post by Shadowhntr » Mon May 02, 2016 11:56 am

CD....another testament that shows there is more to penetration then just bow weight. ;)

Most States do not allow bows under 40-45 lbs. So in return, most guys feel anything below that must not be adequate for deer. Let me say, (as a guy from a State that in my lifetime has changed the minumum draw weight 3 times..... ) with certain restrictive factors that a hunter must follow, along with building and tuning the arrows and bow, and using proper broadheads, and broadside shots only, a 30lb bow will put the broadhead on the back side of our biggest deer here in Kansas. For years, 35lb was the minimum, then it jumped to 45lb. A number of years ago, they removed it completely so there is no restriction. One Reason being, with todays modern materials and ways of doing things, even a 30 lb bow can perform like a 40 lb bow of yesteryear. A 30lb trad bow, with proper heavy arrows and 2 blade broadhead, limiting the shot to 15 yards and under on broadside deer, will indeed put them down consistently. Most States dont allow it, because they dont trust the hunters to follow those guidelines, and so instead make the decision FOR the hunter...and that decision is based on what will work at any reasonable yardage, any reasonable position, and any reasonable scenerio....aka 40 or 45lb = still good for the worst case senerio. Its not because a 30-35 pound bow wont kill deer consistently, its because to do so, requires self limitations. Deer by the droves are killed here every year with 30-35 pound bows. Why would anyone or any State do that? Because an untold amount of small framed women and children, dont get to deer hunt with a 40lb restriction because they cant draw it and shoot it effectively. Our State, im proud to say, is one of the first to break the old school mold, and in doing so have had great success with deer harvest, and bringing in new hunters because of lifting the draw weight restrictions. They leave it up to the hunter to decide what is effective and what is not. So far they have found out, the good out weights any bad by a long margin. I dont think a single person in Kansas hunts with less then 30lb draw, but indeed 30lb does work with things being right, and with self limitations. ....I will add, most (not all) of this low poundage hunter classification, is done with modern compounds. Very few tiny women and children have been adequately versed in trad shooting for hunting accuracy, but there are those that do indeed take deer with 30lb trad bows every season....... Sorry Kirk, had to inject this.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Captainkirk
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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#38 Post by Captainkirk » Mon May 02, 2016 12:57 pm

Don't be sorry!
Under the right circumstances, a 30#er can be quite lethal. Here in Illinois, the minimum for deer is 35 so the DNR has made that call for you. You are correct in stating it takes both knowledge and discipline to make the right shot at the right yardage. This is why I started a thread like this, to let newbies know there are other options. Thanks for your input!
Aim small, miss small!

Kybownut
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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#39 Post by Kybownut » Mon May 02, 2016 5:41 pm

Ky. Has no minimum poundage !

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Shadowhntr
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Re: OH-vur-BOH

#40 Post by Shadowhntr » Mon May 02, 2016 5:50 pm

Kybownut wrote:Ky. Has no minimum poundage !
Yay!!! Another "weird " State!
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

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