Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

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Jamesh76
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Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#1 Post by Jamesh76 »

I have 2 bows, I was going to sell. don't seem to get a lot of interest. They are older and not real valuable.

I just ordered 2x front inserts to place into them. My son has been on me for a long time to bowfish. The lowest weight one is 45#, but for what we are using it for. I am sure it will be ok.

As for the inserts. Typically how far below the shelf are these set on recurves? I do not plan on using the reel type, but rather the ones you hand wrap around the reel.

Additional questions:
I assume these fiberglass logs you shoot don't matter as far as spine goes?

Use a safety stop or just drill a hole and tie the line through?

What if one wanted to use wood arrows with the glue on and pinned fish points? How do these work? How is line attached?

Any info or advise. This is something I have minimal knowledge about.

Most bowfishing will be from a creek along the banks.

James

Jamesh76
Posts: 2019
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:05 pm

Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#2 Post by Jamesh76 »

so any type of braided line around 80#?

I can pick the fiberglass ones up with a point and nock at academy sports for like $5. Already with hole drilled in them.

I assume with the wrap type set ups, there is no need for the safety slide. I understand if it gets tangled up, it can snap back at the archer. I don't really understand how a safety slide could stop this on a wrap type reel.

But as far as a spinning real mounted in a rod seat. If you forget to push the button and are actually tied at the end instead of using the safety slide, the arrow will come off the nock. not so much if safety slide is used. It will just slide to the end of the arrow then do what when its released?

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#3 Post by Shadowhntr »

I'm going to have to disagree with utmost respect with graps on this one and here is why....
Jamesh76 wrote:The lowest weight one is 45#, but for what we are using it for. I am sure it will be ok.
45lbs is plenty for anything we have around here.

As for the inserts. Typically how far below the shelf are these set on recurves?
I imagine greatly placement measurements will vary across brands and models.My 52" Wing Hunter is at 6 7/8". I don't think it's a hugely critical thing, as far as for a bow reel use, and if you are +/- an inch either way I do not think it matters.

Additional questions:
I assume these fiberglass logs you shoot don't matter as far as spine goes?
Sure it matters...but unfortunately the industry doesn't seem to hold it as important. There are only 3 variances in spine I've found. For 40-50lb trad bows I've found what's available to be as follows. Carbon/carbon-fiberglass= WAY too stiff. Solid Fibergalss =stiff. Light bow/kids fishing arrows=
too light and limp. It's a serious problem for us trad shooters that I've been pestering AMS, Cajun, and Muzzy about for 2 years. They won't even return my emails and pretty much flip me the bird about it. Thus....comprimised arrow flight for us trad pee ons. Those serious adult arrows are designed for high energy bows.
Your best bet is solid fiberglass with the heaviest head available which will be of the original Sting a ree type build. In the industries defense, the line pulls on the arrow when shot changing the flight dynamics....but it's still worse from overly stiff arrows. I suspect an adjustable rest may improve performance..which is why I'm moving to buy an ILF type bow namely the Martin Jaguar specifically for bow fishing. Done it for years even with the problems above and just kept my shots short.


Use a safety stop or just drill a hole and tie the line through?
I can't stress the importance of the saftey slides and stops enough. Hundreds of injuries and even several deaths have resulted from the result of arrow snap back from the "old school" direct tying. Partly because of the much improved super lines of today. A heavy glass arrow coming back at you as fast as it left?..you can imagine, right? Year's ago in the olden days, we just used regular old garden nylon twine and if a hang up occured on the shot, the line would simply snap, sounding like a .22 LR going off, which DID happen maybe once or twice a season.. Most often arrow and tip were history. Quality of line nowdays is so good, even in garden types, that if hang ups happen, the line holds, causing the arrow to "bounce" back at the shooter full speed. Ive witnessed it first hand and watched as Mohawks brother damn near casterated himself. Its happend a bunch so never think it cant happen to you. That's why efforts have been geared to improve the ability to eliminate hang up possibilities with both the saftey slide and stop, as well as reel types. The hand reels are notorious for producing snap back, when the line is accidentally allowed to get behind the drum. The new systems are pretty much fool proof for safety, but are not without their problems and most of those problems center around performance, and arrow flight issues. A saftey slide and stop will help to reduce the chances of snap back when used with a hand wind drum type reel, but the risk are still very real. There needs to be much more attention from the insustry given to design, as much is still lacking regardless of their blown up claims. Right now I don't know the best answer, outside of just using a modern compound coupled with the new systems.


What if one wanted to use wood arrows with the glue on and pinned fish points? How do these work? How is line attached
Theoretically wood can work.
How well is another story. Fiberglass has been the choice of bowfishermen for eons now and for good reason. Two main reasons.... The arrows go through unmatched punishment and extreme conditions, and most shots on fish happen well below the surface. If fish are merely a few inches under, and the angle is very steep then wood would work for a short time until the punishment becomes too much from the heavy fish flailing about and snapping the arrow from side pressure....or if it hits rock on imact. Also the heavy scales from rough fish will eat the wood.The one best scenario would be consistent head or upper end spine hits...hoowever that takes away any of the fun of bowfishing. In the later case, wood skips, and loses to much momentum when fish are submerged as they so often are. The heavy fiberglass allows for deeper penetration of fish in deeper water, as most shots require
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Jamesh76
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Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#4 Post by Jamesh76 »

[quote="Jamesh76"]The lowest weight one is 45#, but for what we are using it for. I am sure it will be ok.
45lbs is plenty for anything we have around here.

Good info, keep it coming. As far as this comment. I should have expanded on what I meant. My son will be using the 45# bow. He may be over bowed and short draw it a little. The little guy wont stop growing.... over a foot in the last year, as tall as I am not at 6' and his hands are a whole knuckle longer than mine. I by no means have small hands. So for just having fun on the creek. I am not sure it matters much. I just don't have any lighter poundage bows I am willing to drill and place a riser insert into, maybe a 37# Cougar..... still debating on that though.

Safety slides- I still do not understand how they will stop an arrow from coming back at you. Do they break or something?

I have ready and seen videos of people using 30# mono fishing line tied through the hole, or into the safety slide. And then, they tie the line from the reel to it. Reason being, so it will break if the line becomes tangled.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#5 Post by Shadowhntr »

Jamesh76 wrote:I assume with the wrap type set ups, there is no need for the safety slide. I understand if it gets tangled up, it can snap back at the archer. I don't really understand how a safety slide could stop this on a wrap type.
No matter the type of reel used the saftey slide and stop works the same way. Prevention. In a conventional rear tyed arrow, when you draw the arrow you also pull the fishing line back with you to full draw, and it forms a loop, which BETTER be on the outside of your bow arm and hand. Most often when you release the line safely skins across your outer arm as the arrow and line leave. However weeds, wind, and such can unknowingly hold over, or blow the loop over to the drum reel and get behind it before or as you shoot. I've got about 10 arrows in Hillsdale right now to attest to this fact and a few more at other lakes around too, over many years of bowfishing. After witnessing a snap back first hand...I changed my thinking.

With the saftey slide and stop....as you draw, the line is attached to the slide and the slide and line stays out in front of your bow and hand, with hopefully a taught-ish line between arrow and reel with no loop. As you draw the slide allows the arrow to pass through effectively keeping the line out front. When released, the arrow slides back through the slide until it hits the rear stop and by then the arrow is out of your bow and pulling line off your reel. In order to use a saftey slide and stop effectively with a hand reel will center around your ability to design a way to keep the line tight between the arrow and reel, such as incorporating a line keeper on your reel for instance. It will not be without its challenges though, I know that much. I still haven't found that happy median where I feel safe for myself and those around me, as well as getting the best performance. Performance wise if all goes well? I haven't found anything better then old school and especially with a shoot through hand wind drum which is my favorite (but are hard to find). The safest way is the new retrieve r style but performance is lacking coupled with trad bows. Pick your poison.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#6 Post by Shadowhntr »

This would be a full length arrow draw...but the slide stops where ever your draw is, with line tight to reel and in front of bow.
20180224_115711-480x640.jpg
20180224_115711-480x640.jpg (66.57 KiB) Viewed 785 times
Once arrow is released, it slides through the "slide"...
20180224_115732-480x640.jpg
20180224_115732-480x640.jpg (115.36 KiB) Viewed 785 times
Until it hits the stop... then it takes the slide with it, and pulls line....
20180224_115750-480x640.jpg
20180224_115750-480x640.jpg (59.53 KiB) Viewed 785 times
...which Theoretically should look like this in flight...
20180224_115825-480x640.jpg
20180224_115825-480x640.jpg (77.45 KiB) Viewed 785 times
The little black stop must clear the strike plate and rest upon the shot....
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Jamesh76
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:05 pm

Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#7 Post by Jamesh76 »

So on the arrows you have lost. Was it due to the slide stop or string breaking?

I understand now, how the slide stop essentially will be on the arrow directly above the reel or hand reel. Initially, I thought there would be excess of line out in front of the bow. But not necessarily, due to it sliding. Once it hits the screw at the back and is released it unwinds. Is there any benefit to ensure the string position is at the top or bottom of the hand wind reels? and not say the opposite side?


From the mishap you have seen. What was the set up, what was the cause? Have you had any yourself?


does it matter which direction you wind string onto the spool?

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#8 Post by Shadowhntr »

The arrows I lost were largely due to hang ups/tangles on small hand wind reels before any saftey slides were invented, and would have been a case, prime for snap back to have happened had the line not broken when I shot. I used line that would break if It happened to tangle, fully intentional for saftey sake. Most tangles and snap backs happen while the arrow is still close to the bow...within feet. Virtually all tangles and lost arrow situations in MY case were indeed with the small hand wind drum reels, but a time or maybe two it was with the shoot through drum. Remember, when tied to the rear of arrow it forms a loop from the arrow to the reel otherwise you can't draw. Once you draw it takes up some slack and being very careful.... but not always so careful to see to that, in the heat of hot shooting. Moving the bow to follow moving fish, can allow weeds, or wind, to push the line over, or sometimes just gravity does it as its impossible to keep that line tight when set up like that for bowfishing, especially from weedy banks, and can allow the line to get behind the reel or even looped over it.. When you shoot the arrow makes it a couple feet before all hell breaks loose. I might make hundreds of shots no problem....but then the once. With today's super lines it's deadly if and when they do not break and the line holds instead.

In the case I witnessed, it was years ago but I know he was using a closed face fishing reel and short rod. In that case no saftey slide would have helped because the arrow made it several feet out in front of him before snapping back like a bullet. From what I remember it was either the line in the reel become tangled, or he accidentally engaged the reel. I can find out for sure and let you know. It was almost 30 years ago so mostly what I remember was the snap back and the after effects, enough to scare me I'll tell ya. He had just gotten our attention to watch his shot too, so we seen it all. He was using a compound I think at least 60lb draw, he had super line on and it held unfortunately. Fortunately for me my line always broke before that and never got snap back, but if my line was of today's standards I'm certain I would have had.. fortunately I got tired of losing arrows and went with the shoot through with very few problems even without a saftey slide available, for hundreds and hundreds of shots...once, maybe twice it got tangled? A shoot through drum is a far different beast then a small drum though. Since then, after several years of no bowfishing, I went to the saftey slide system and won't go back from that haunting memory. Since then I rarely draw on a fish without thinking about it.

I'm not to thrilled with the retrieve r reels though and wish I could find a shoot through again. I'd still be using a saftey slide though.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#9 Post by Shadowhntr »

And yes, it does make a difference on the direction of line wind on hand reels....whichever way is best to reduce hang ups.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Jamesh76
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Re: Not really sure about this..... Need some input/advise

#10 Post by Jamesh76 »

I just seen one on EBAY for like $15 shipped. looked like it taped on?

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