Is my group good enough?
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Acsexton55
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:47 pm
Is my group good enough?
I have been shooting traditional archery for about 6 or 7nyears now and have taken a few deer and plenty of small game. I have also missed a few deer and plenty of small game. I shoot almost everyday on 3D and photo type targets. I am always wondering how to know when my groups are tight enough. I don’t know of any trad shooters in my area to discuss this with.
Re: Is my group good enough?
Well, if you’re taking game I’d say yes. How bout some pics of them groups?
Nothing clears a troubled mind like shooting a bow.
Re: Is my group good enough?
Welcome from Michigan.
Your question is relevant. If you can keep all your arrows in a paper plate at 20 yards that's good for deer.
But small game is another thing. Rabbits would need you to consistently hit a tennis ball.
So I guess only you can tell if its good enough.
Hopefully someone will chime in with a better answer than I have given you.
And again, welcome.
Your question is relevant. If you can keep all your arrows in a paper plate at 20 yards that's good for deer.
But small game is another thing. Rabbits would need you to consistently hit a tennis ball.
So I guess only you can tell if its good enough.
Hopefully someone will chime in with a better answer than I have given you.
And again, welcome.
"Maybe the truly handicapped people are the ones that don't need God as much." ~ Joni Eareckson Tada
Re: Is my group good enough?
Lets see??? How many rabbits have I missed with a 12 guage?? 
I've always strived to go around a 3d coarse with out any wounds or misses. I was successful one time. But that still remains my goal. You've got to temper that with how realistic the coarse has been set up. If there are shots I wouldn't take in the field, I simply realize it's more a gamesman coarse set up with more longer shots and low percentage shots I wouldn't take anyway. That doesn't mean that it isn't fun and good practice.
The better the shooters you rub elbows with and shoot with, the sooner you will see more improvement. I don't know what the hot videos are now a days, but you might want to get a copy of Masters of the Barebow. Is your form like theirs? Have someone video your form and compare it with a critical eye to what you see in them.
If your you and your friends spend more time looking for arrows behind the targets than shooting at the targets, you may be having fun but you may not be learning good form and technique. You want to find a club with some dedicated traditional shooters/hunters. Get in with them and learn if you can't get any coaching. A good coach will help you overcome the bad habits you may be ingraining now. I went around a coarse once with a stranger. Less than half way around I commented on how I blew that shot and this fellow said, yup. you didn't settle before your release, as you do on each shot and proceeded to comment on all the parts of my form. He was a compound coach and was new to traditional shooting and was paying close attention.
By focusing real hard on your group size, you may be setting yourself up for the dreaded "target panic" so many seem to suffer with. Your group size will shrink as your form improves and as you set up your bow and arrows properly. Just as someones golf game improves with good coaching and "good" practice, not just flingin arrows and ingraining errors, so will your groups shrink with a properly leaned form and practice that learns each aspect of your form until you've learned it well enough to not have to focus on it.
To answer your question. In the basement, where the shots are close, I love to hear my arrows clicking together. When shooting with friends, on one of them gets into the ten ring, I love to slide my arrow alongside. Now< I can't do that all the time, but I sure love the days when I can.
Look at a NFAA 300 target. I used to shoot a few rounds of that when I came home from work in the driveway at 20 yards. If I could hit the center ring and the next ring, I was happy. Sometimes with an end of 5 arrows, all five would be in the 5 ring. But usually there would only be 3 or 4. When there were less, it was time to go inside. So I guess my standard would be about a 6" pie plate, but striving for half that. Half that would be the average 10 ring on a 3d target and whatever range you take your hunting shots. When we were kids, Dad wouldn't let us hunt if we couldn't keep them in a 9" dinner plate. At the Rinehart 100 that may come to your area once a year, we had some young compounders following our group. Once when they got close enough to watch us, one guy commented as I was setting up a shot that traditional archery didn't have ten ring accuracy. He thought I should just fling my arrow and move on, I guess. I nailed the ten and he ate crow. We are in an era of 18 yard shots. The generations before us shot field for their game. Shots from up close to 80 yards.
x-ring = 4 cm = 1.575 inches
5-ring or center spot = 8 cm = 3.150 inches
4-ring = 16 cm = 6.299 inches
3-ring = 24 cm = 9.449 inches
2-ring = 32 cm = 12.598 inches
1-ring = 40 cm = 15.748 inches
I've always strived to go around a 3d coarse with out any wounds or misses. I was successful one time. But that still remains my goal. You've got to temper that with how realistic the coarse has been set up. If there are shots I wouldn't take in the field, I simply realize it's more a gamesman coarse set up with more longer shots and low percentage shots I wouldn't take anyway. That doesn't mean that it isn't fun and good practice.
The better the shooters you rub elbows with and shoot with, the sooner you will see more improvement. I don't know what the hot videos are now a days, but you might want to get a copy of Masters of the Barebow. Is your form like theirs? Have someone video your form and compare it with a critical eye to what you see in them.
If your you and your friends spend more time looking for arrows behind the targets than shooting at the targets, you may be having fun but you may not be learning good form and technique. You want to find a club with some dedicated traditional shooters/hunters. Get in with them and learn if you can't get any coaching. A good coach will help you overcome the bad habits you may be ingraining now. I went around a coarse once with a stranger. Less than half way around I commented on how I blew that shot and this fellow said, yup. you didn't settle before your release, as you do on each shot and proceeded to comment on all the parts of my form. He was a compound coach and was new to traditional shooting and was paying close attention.
By focusing real hard on your group size, you may be setting yourself up for the dreaded "target panic" so many seem to suffer with. Your group size will shrink as your form improves and as you set up your bow and arrows properly. Just as someones golf game improves with good coaching and "good" practice, not just flingin arrows and ingraining errors, so will your groups shrink with a properly leaned form and practice that learns each aspect of your form until you've learned it well enough to not have to focus on it.
To answer your question. In the basement, where the shots are close, I love to hear my arrows clicking together. When shooting with friends, on one of them gets into the ten ring, I love to slide my arrow alongside. Now< I can't do that all the time, but I sure love the days when I can.
Look at a NFAA 300 target. I used to shoot a few rounds of that when I came home from work in the driveway at 20 yards. If I could hit the center ring and the next ring, I was happy. Sometimes with an end of 5 arrows, all five would be in the 5 ring. But usually there would only be 3 or 4. When there were less, it was time to go inside. So I guess my standard would be about a 6" pie plate, but striving for half that. Half that would be the average 10 ring on a 3d target and whatever range you take your hunting shots. When we were kids, Dad wouldn't let us hunt if we couldn't keep them in a 9" dinner plate. At the Rinehart 100 that may come to your area once a year, we had some young compounders following our group. Once when they got close enough to watch us, one guy commented as I was setting up a shot that traditional archery didn't have ten ring accuracy. He thought I should just fling my arrow and move on, I guess. I nailed the ten and he ate crow. We are in an era of 18 yard shots. The generations before us shot field for their game. Shots from up close to 80 yards.
x-ring = 4 cm = 1.575 inches
5-ring or center spot = 8 cm = 3.150 inches
4-ring = 16 cm = 6.299 inches
3-ring = 24 cm = 9.449 inches
2-ring = 32 cm = 12.598 inches
1-ring = 40 cm = 15.748 inches
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Re: Is my group good enough?
Hello Andy. Welcome to Tradhunter.
I am here in Corvallis, Mt.
Like most of us it has always been my goal to get my groups as tight as I can get them. They are hardly ever as tight as I would like to see them. To help me with that I try to focus on smallest spot on my intended target as I can concentrate on. A lot of times I will use the knock from my first shot as my spot for the next few shots.
If you haven't already, you will most likely here this phrase from someone else. "Aim small, miss small"
I am here in Corvallis, Mt.
Like most of us it has always been my goal to get my groups as tight as I can get them. They are hardly ever as tight as I would like to see them. To help me with that I try to focus on smallest spot on my intended target as I can concentrate on. A lot of times I will use the knock from my first shot as my spot for the next few shots.
If you haven't already, you will most likely here this phrase from someone else. "Aim small, miss small"
Calling Elk - Awesome! !€
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Captainkirk
- Site Admin
- Posts: 13078
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:19 pm
Re: Is my group good enough?
"Aim small, miss small"...now, who here would ever say that? 
Welcome to the forum!
It sounds like your group issues have more to do with form consistency and/or distance than anything else. You've certainly proven you can take both large and small game with a trad bow.
My suggestion would be to first shorten up your range. If consistency does not improve, time to look at your form (preferably with a coach) and see what is changing from shot to shot.
Welcome to the forum!
It sounds like your group issues have more to do with form consistency and/or distance than anything else. You've certainly proven you can take both large and small game with a trad bow.
My suggestion would be to first shorten up your range. If consistency does not improve, time to look at your form (preferably with a coach) and see what is changing from shot to shot.
Aim small, miss small!
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joe harrod1945
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:41 pm
Re: Is my group good enough?
welcome from kentucky
Re: Is my group good enough?
Anyone that can take small game with a bow is good enough! 
Re: Is my group good enough?
I agree with the rest here, if your killing game, your
" groups " are good enough. I guess we all like to shoot good groups, it's a mental thing. We all try to tighten our groups. Tight groups are part of the process of getting better. I personally have never shot exceptionally tight groups and I'm ok with that. But I still try. I have taken the pressure off myself by remembering a quote from Dr. Ed Ashby's book entitled " NOW "; he says, " adequate accuracy quickly is far better than precise accuracy too late ". Just my 2 cents.
" groups " are good enough. I guess we all like to shoot good groups, it's a mental thing. We all try to tighten our groups. Tight groups are part of the process of getting better. I personally have never shot exceptionally tight groups and I'm ok with that. But I still try. I have taken the pressure off myself by remembering a quote from Dr. Ed Ashby's book entitled " NOW "; he says, " adequate accuracy quickly is far better than precise accuracy too late ". Just my 2 cents.